persephone33: (Monica see?)
persephone33 ([personal profile] persephone33) wrote2007-08-16 09:15 am
Entry tags:

"Yet sadly, accidental rudeness occurs alarmingly often."

I'm going to rant a bit.  I feel I should I should warn you ahead of time.

In my travels about the country in the past week, I've noticed that good manners in the American culture are slipping.  No, not even slipping.  Horribly absent.  I'm not even talking about using the wrong fork here, folks, but things that should be second nature, and aren't.  It seems that in this "me" society, that no one thinks of others before themselves.  What has happened to please and thank you? (I've trained my husband now.  He didn't bother with it when we were first married.)  Those are the barest essential elements of good manners and it appears that it has become passe to use even those niceties.  Don't even get me started about chivalry, or the people in the airport barrelling over you with not even an apology thrown over their shoulder as they race to another gate.  Opening the doors for other people?  Helping someone struggling with a load?  It might be a little more prevalent in the south of the United states, but not much.  

Due to the training I've been giving my own sons, the qualities in them that I'm trying to make second nature to them, I've noticed that, aside from their father, they don't have very many good role models in men.  Their little friends don't open the doors for their mother, they don't help unload groceries from the car, and they have attrocious table manners.  

Table manners!  Good heavens above!  I know formal American table manners, like where to put your knife and fork when you're finished eating to signal the waiter that you've finished your meal, as well my way around a place setting, but I'm talking the basics.  For children, for adults, for everyone.  Put your napkin in your lap.  Close your mouth when you chew.  Don't talk with food in your mouth.  Sit up straight (Posture.  Don't even get me started.) and bring the food to your mouth, don't hunch over your plate like someone might take it from you.  Keep your elbows off the table.  Don't salt the food without tasting it first.  You do not belch, burp, or anything worse at the dinner table.  EVER.  Don't begin eating before the host does, unless directed otherwise.  When someone asks you to pass the salt, you pass it hand to hand, down the table, and you do not hold it hostage and use it first before passing it. (This is a pet peeve of mine.)  Blot with a napkin, don't smear.

I'm not going to go in to how to eat soup, because we'd be here all day.

In short, having good manners nowadays sometimes means putting up with someone else's bad manners.  But, if people were more aware of others and their feelings, it might come more naturally.  Think of someone else first, for a change.  And for heaven's sake, chew with your mouth closed.

[identity profile] sue-bridehead.livejournal.com 2007-08-16 04:07 pm (UTC)(link)
We have always preached manners in our house. The kids still need reminded now and then, but my husband is quite good with 'please' and 'thank you'. Even 'you're welcome' - a dying phrase in America that is giving way to "No problem" and "Uh-huh." We're very polite, and when he asks me to do something, he's usually appreciative.

But when he eats, he often tries to talk, like what he has to say just can't wait 30 seconds. Of course, no one can understand him, so I'll say, "Finish that first and then tell me." He also tends to 'smack' his food noisily, which really gets on my nerves. I don't think he even knows he does it! He has a hearing problem, so maybe he can't hear it and doesn't think anyone else can either(?). Luckily, restaurants are so loud these days, I usually don't hear it when we're eating out - but at home, it's a bit disgusting.

P.S. I recently read that 'No problem' is not a good substitute for 'You're welcome' because it basically means, "I didn't have to put myself out on your behalf." ^_^ When I thought of it like that, I decided to stop saying it.

[identity profile] persephone33.livejournal.com 2007-08-16 04:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Goodness, I do say that. I think I'll stop. My husband has the habit of scraping his fork on his teeth which I don't let myself think about, or I might implode. He does stop if I say something, which is nice of him.

In other news, I'm re-reading Mala Fide, before embarking on the beta - I printed it out so I could take it to the pool. Do you have any idea how thick that sucker is? It's impressive, I'll tell you that. I'm halfway through, so It shouldn't be too much longer. :)

[identity profile] sue-bridehead.livejournal.com 2007-08-16 04:25 pm (UTC)(link)
I know, it's really long...! (Be glad you didn't beta-read Unbidden Desires; it's about twice as long.)

Ooh, a fic of mine is 'pool-side reading'! ;)

[identity profile] mugglechump.livejournal.com 2007-08-16 04:25 pm (UTC)(link)
That reminds me of when I worked with a British fellow back in my early twenties. He mentioned that the American phrase he hated hearing was 'I don't care' in response to a question about one's preference.

"Where do you want to eat?"

"I don't care."

He thought it was very rude to express such disinterest in your plans and the people with whom you are spending time. Ever since then I've tried to respond to that sort of question with 'Anywhere is fine with me', 'I don't have a preference', or something similar.

[identity profile] persephone33.livejournal.com 2007-08-16 04:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Another good one.

[identity profile] sue-bridehead.livejournal.com 2007-08-16 04:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Those are probably better answers. Funny how something that's meant to be selfless (in this case, 'I don't care' = 'I'll let you decide') can come across as lazy and thoughtless. It just shows how differently the British and Americans can interpet things.

[identity profile] kristibisci.livejournal.com 2007-08-16 04:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Hmm... I'll have to be careful about that!

Sort of related but not really, but when I was in Australia, I'd always say "sure" instead of "ok" or "yes" but they thought I meant I was "unsure" and would get really confused, thinking I was disinterested in what they were doing or where we were going. I felt really bad after we sorted that out!